Well, that was an almightily balls up wasn't it? 2013/14 is a season heading straight for the bin marked 'waste of time'...or is it? Is there a crumb of comfort to be rescued from the wreckage? As it happens, not just a crumb but hopefully much more than that (a slice?!).
It started off ok, probably more brightly that your average Billy season, and even featuring an impressive 3-0 win over a Bolton Wanderers side that this writer laughably thought would challenge.
Then, after the obligatory home defeat on the birthday of yours truly to Reading (cheers lads, still not quite as bad as the 0-4 reverse to Leeds a couple of seasons ago), Billy's boys went up a gear and powered through a 16-game unbeaten league and cup run.
At that point a tilt at the title still looked a little way off, but the race for second place wasn't too fanciful and a play-off spot was surely on the horizon.
And then it happened. The meltdown of Shakespearean proportions befell Trentside, eventually sweeping away Billy 'Macbeth' Davies and his team amid an ever-fractious environment.
Gary Brazil laudably brought in some calm - and a couple of kids - and there was a glimmer of false hope just to ensure we couldn't properly relax as the season finished. But, if we're honest, it was never going to be our season after a bizarre month-and-a-bit stretching from the cup defeat at Sheffield United on February 16 (we would've been a home game vs Charlton away from Wembley) to the pathetic display down the road on March 22.
The end of the Davies era has been, rightly, dissected from all angles - with the laughing stock press conferences (my highlight being when he once posed his very own question to himself and then answered with a 'no comment'), the clashes with photographers and 'legal advice' not to discuss his own team's performance following games while he served a touchline ban all mulled over. Billy's own bland 'it is what it is' mantra became a tongue-in-cheek catchphrase among the fans, a bit of dark humour from the masses to rail against the Davies dictatorship.
If we're honest, all or most of that trouble was looming large in the sidelines even when things were going well. It just took 8 games without a win - particularly the painful sheep dip showing - to convince Fawaz that it was time to part ways.
It could, of course, be argued that it was injuries that cost us really. Add Reid, Wilson, Cohen, Hobbs, Lansbury, Lichaj into the side in March and we would, surely, have done better - especially with Reid's magic wand of a left foot to conjure something from nothing.
But can injuries be purely put down to bad luck? The sheer volume of those on the treatment table at least causes you to question if more could not have been done to a- keep the players fit and b-not sign players that were unfit.
Bad luck or bad management - we might never know on the injury score but the alarming slide meant Davies' demise proved inevitable.
So that's it - wash our hands with the whole episode, etch the Natalie Jackson interviews from our memory, forget the 'unfinished business' hashtag and start again?
Well, maybe not. Two years ago we were still facing the prospect of attracting an owner. We'd had the failed McClaren experiment and the watch-through-your-fingers Cotterill rescue to endure. When Fawaz bought the club and appointed Sean O'Driscoll we had barely a month to piece together a back four without a defender on the books. With that much upheaval you're always going to struggle to succeed.
This time it should be different. The last two years as a whole were a mess. Although backed with money, SOD was sacked after precious little time to put a side together, McLeish was just a terrible mistake and then came the rise and fall of BD round two. But, if we set aside the managerial merry-go-round, the basics of a team/squad have emerged from those ashes.
Stuart Pearce (*resists the temptation to pause blogging for a Psycho fist pump*) should come in on July 1 with much less to do transfer wise than either of the last two pre-season incumbents. Why? Well, when fit, there's no reason why the following nine players can't be part of a Pearce line-up come August: Darlow, Lichaj, Cohen, Hobbs, Wilson, Reid, Lansbury, Vaughan, Paterson.
Add to that:
Lascelles - perhaps harshly missed off that list but bound to be needed given the injury record of messrs Hobbs and Wilson
Fox - who is better than he showed here last season - especially given his background from dead ball situations
Halford - maligned by some but does have a good touch and football brain, if not a preferred position. In some ways the 'perfect sub' since he can cover for anyone else
Mackie - a hard worker who just lacks finesse
de Vries - an able deputy at this level
Osborn - looks a natural 'Forest midfielder' and really took to first team action when thrown in under Brazil
McLaughlin - also stepped in towards the end of the season, looks a little raw but will hopefully benefit from the experience and could push for a place on the bench
Then there's players we may be 'stuck with' and have to find some use for...
Majewski - has proved himself to be pretty unreliable over the years, performs in fits and starts but goes missing too often and makes mistakes that leave you tearing your hair out
Cox - a huge disappointment in the Garibaldi Red. Has shown very very occasional flashes of the talent he possesses but looks far behind the player he showed himself to be at Swindon and West Brom. Maybe a Pearce sized boot up the posterior could get something out of the Irishman?
I'd move Henderson, Harding and Collins towards the exit door if possible - all have proven to be below the quality needed for the top end of the table and are surely no better than what Brazil might be able to prepare for us from the academy.
Pearce wants a smaller squad apparently so that probably only leaves 3/4 berths to fill. Of those nine starters mentioned you could either see that 'core' as two banks of four that simply need two strikers to round it off or as a creative midfield that needs a tackler behind it and striker in front, or a natural 433 that needs a striker and another attacking winger.
In essence I'd like to see that core of nine being adapted to be play as all three of those formations. Pearce's shopping list should definitely have a tackler on it to free up Reid, Lansbury and Vaughan to run games, with Paterson just off a front man. Too often we pushed Vaughan and Reid very deep to paper over the fact there was little or no 'screening' for the back four. That can only be to the detriment of players whose talents lie elsewhere. The others used in this role - Moussi, Greening and Jara - have all been moved on.
The shopping list should also, most obviously, have strikers on it. Yes, maybe one that can peel wide as a modern winger-cum-striker but absolutely top of the list should be an out-and-out goalscorer. Forget the departing Miller and Derbyshire, the deteriorating Henderson or the mis-firing Cox, this needs to be a proper 20-goal figurehead. Reid, Lansbury and Paterson managed 29 goals between them in a stop-start season, a proper striker on top of that would make us an altogether more deadly prospect.
I'm sure Pearce knows this of course but it is worth reflecting on the fact that, despite everything that has gone on, if we sort our fitness out we are just three or four players away from having a pretty good side - maybe just two from the starting 11. Yes strikers occupy probably the hardest, and certainly most expensive, of positions to fill but we've got (and had) plenty of time to look and it's refreshing to think that what we require isn't a massive rebuilding job, it's a sensible 'building on what we've got' job.
All that may not be the sexy 'clear them all out and start again' territory that excites some but, as we've seen, that sort of thing doesn't bring overnight success. Everyone praises Leicester for building a side and developing over time. If we utilise the decent core of players that I think we have then there's absolutely no reason to think we can't look back and consider these last two years as being ones in which we've 'built' towards our long-term goal.
Of course, it isn't all about players. But you do feel that Pearce and his staff should bring the leadership, enthusiasm and calm to the dugout that should help to move his side in the right direction. If he's scouted sensibly then let's hope he can get those couple of players in early, get a decent, injury-free pre-season under our collective belts and then definitely ensure we haven't been wasting our time for two turbulent years.
Monday, 2 June 2014
Wednesday, 2 April 2014
Psycho? Bring it on
I've changed my tune. You see I used to be firmly in the 'I don't want Psycho back as manager, it'd tarnish his reputation' camp. Like many, I was filled with dread at the thought of my all time favourite player being remembered for getting the boot after a tame defeat and murmurings of discontent.
Pearce the player ought to be an inspiration beyond the stands too. His thunderous tackles, unstoppable free kicks and marauding forward runs were pure brilliance. Those qualities made him England captain and if you're not inspired to play for someone like that then there's something wrong with you. I appreciate that in itself is simplistic and confuses managerial and footballing ability but you'd like to think that, in some way, what he did on the field mattered and mattered to more than just us.
It's the sort of negative, safety first thinking that you get after watching Forest over the years. But is it not time to set that aside and be happy about the possible return of a hero? Come on then, why not...
First of all, is it not time to challenge the 'he's a terrible manager' line that is often trotted out?
Yes, he doesn't have the greatest reputation but what are we judging that on? Pearce's under-21 tenure? Well, I'll be the first to admit I was underwhelmed at what I saw from his teams at big tournaments. We looked short of imagination and real quality when it came to taking on the top teams under pressure.
Playing devil's advocate (or Pl***'s mate if you would) for a second and you'd have to point out that Pearce's side reached a Euro final and semi final - and was badly shorn of talent at an albeit dreadful 2013 tournament in Israel. This comes on the back of failing to qualify in 2004 (under that man Pl***) and 2006. Indeed we also failed to make it to five consecutive tournaments in the 90s. And freezing on the big stage at a tournament, when actually there, is hardly a trait hampering Pearce's England U21s alone.
What about at City? Well his tenure seems now to be part of a mere footnote in the time between the club's return to the top flight and the takeover/big money era that began under Sven. He finished lower mid table in consecutive seasons (albeit flirting with the wrong end of the table in the second). This was a City where the likes of Agüero, Negredo and Dzeko were yet to be seen, with the hopes resting instead on the likes of Vassell, Mpenza and Dickov. Was he a resounding success? No. A disaster? No.
Our job, we have to admit, is also not on the same level than either the under-21s or City. Judging Pearce from the prism of top Premier League management is different to judging him at the level we're at. You'd like to think those experiences should have taught him a fair bit and, hopefully, got him some credit and contacts with some good young players.
There's no denying that the name and character of Pearce should be a positive and unifying force for the club. Is that important? Well, in the light of the Davies era it probably is. The reaction of senior and respected figures in the media to the wee Scot's departure speaks volumes. Quite simply he had enemies. Who cares about a few hacks? Well, reputation matters, especially if Fawaz wants to extend marketing opportunities by building a 'brand'. You also worry that the public utterances of these journalists have been echoed in private by possible transfer targets and opposition clubs. We need a great deal of water to flow under Trent Bridge now to get back our good name. Pearce's appointment may well quicken the tide.
Excitement aside it may not be seen as a sensible appointment. But, then again, where have sensible appointments got us? Pl*** and Megson made sense at the time, or do I thought. Nigel Doughty was, if we're honest, almost too logical and businesslike in his picks. A man who won the most Premier League manager of the months in Kinnear, a man with a track record in discipline and getting promotion at West Brom in Megson, a former England manager in McClaren. All laudable reasons but all not long term 'fits'. And anyway if the sensible option this time is the odious Warnock then you can stick being sensible. Maybe let's try 'heart over head'?
I used to feel sad that I'd missed the glorious European days and even the 80s when cup finals and high league finishes were the norm. But then came the days of Pl*** and Megson and I realised that I was pretty lucky. I went to Wembley twice in 1992 in the last days of the Clough empire (in fact as last winners, do we still count as holders of the Zenith Data Systems trophy?!). I also got to enjoy the Frank Clark side that followed. Now, with the benefit of hindsight, I feel sorry for the fans who missed out on Collymore, Roy, Cooper, Chettle, Woan, Stone, Crossley and - most definitely above all - Pearce. Frankly whatever Psycho does in the dugout will do nothing to diminish his legendary player status. He's my favourite player and why should that change? The goals, crosses, tackles etc live on in the memory regardless.
The fact that he's a legend doesn't mean he'll automatically be a success here as a manager but it does mean he deserves our respect and support even more. Just imagine how good it'd be to have a successful 150th anniversary with Psycho leading the charge. The prospect of a fist pump to the crowd and accompanying 'Psycho' chant is almost enough alone to ease any lingering fears.
One of my favourite Pearce memories wasn't even in a Forest shirt, or indeed an England one. It came at Maine Road on March 30 2002. Pearce was captain, of course, of Kevin Keegan's free scoring side that roared to promotion in the last season for Man City at their old ground. We, on the other hand, were a little timid and yet to find the passing verve that Paul Hart managed in his second season. Hart deployed Marlon Harewood on the right wing, directly up against Pearce. He was, predictably, too strong, clever and classy for poor-old Marlon, who barely had a kick. We lost 3-0 to a Darren Huckerby hat trick and, with the game a lost cause for the most part, the travelling Trickies cheered on Psycho. Pearce didn't flinch. Ever the pro he remained focused on the task in hand, albeit one that seemed a little too easy. With his name still echoing around the away end come full time he headed off with the rest of his teammates, satisfied at a job well done. And that was that. Except it wasn't. Business done for the day, Pearce trotted back out over to us, gave us an old school fist pump, chucked his shirt in the crowd and revelled in the raucous 'Psycho, Psycho, Psycho' chant. A class act and an icon. To twist a Billyism, he is what he is.
Am I dreaming? Probably. But, hell, barring another George Boyd-esque u turn it looks like it is about to happen. Let's enjoy the ride. Psycho is, after all, our leader.
Tuesday, 22 October 2013
Still unfinished business for Billy
The prevailing mood upon leaving the City Ground on Saturday was undoubtedly one of frustration. The 1-1 draw with Bournemouth proved perfectly that Billy Davies' 'unfinished business' mantra still holds true, with two pieces of the jigsaw very definitely and prominently missing.
Those pieces aren't a surprise either. The club's well documented chase of Grant Leadbitter and of a number of strikers show that the wee Glaswegian is as acutely aware of the fact that the side - despite healthy building work - is incomplete.
On the face of it a striker alone would have settled three points on Trentside on Saturday. It's true that there were chances galore to add to Henri Lansbury's stunning long range curler. Cox's one-on-one in the first half was golden, especially given that it was a rare moment that he wasn't flagged for being offside. Henderson's inexplicable miscue after he'd rounded the keeper in the second half added a rancid icing to a particularly ill-tasting cake.
A cheeky poacher in the mould of Billy Sharp, Rob Earnshaw or David Johnson would surely have gobbled up either opportunity, but is that too cheap a point to make? While strikers of their calibre would have been licking their lips more than a Premier League side on the way to Selhurst Park at the moment at being handed such chances, Cox and Henderson would both, on another day, surely have netted.
Cox in particular is in a worryingly blunt run of form. His ability and pedigree should definitely be yielding more in the goals column - something that would ease the still valid calls for Fawaz's chequebook to be brandished. He has been backed now by three managers and has accrued a fair wedge of faith to repay.
So what of the other gap in the current side? The need for a deep lying 'midfield general' was, for me, almost as keenly felt.
Bournemouth were a side that do not deserve to be patronised. Eddie Howe's outfit played good football, had smart movement and were built from a solid base that included the astutely signed ex Forest loanee Elliott Ward. The Cherries had a second half wobble when they gave the ball away too readily and looked ripe to concede a second. But, with Forest's aforementioned profligacy helping, they rallied strongly and, come the end, their equaliser felt deserved.
That said, it felt like the midfield balance displayed by the home side contributed. Billy was criticised post match for 'sitting on the lead', but this is precisely what he couldn't do. With the players he had available the Reds boss tried to fashion a working midfield from a bank of flair players. Lansbury, Majewski, Reid and Abdoun all have their talents - but you feel all could do with someone behind them. Someone in 'that' bert that at our level seems a little laughable to call the 'Makelele role'.
The paucity in that position was not helped, of course, by loanee Chalobah's suspension. With him out of the picture Lansbury and Reid both at times dropped deeper and tried to dictate the tempo. That they were only partially successful meant a point was always there for the taking, something Pugh's late leveller ultimately secured for the impressive visitors.
It's harsh to criticise Davies too much for sending his flair foursome out to try to win the game but sadly it was crying out for someone to either put their foot on the ball and calmly assert authority or to have a physical presence that could dominate. Effectively we needed someone to do the role filled so well at the start of last season by Simon Gillett. I wonder what he's up to?
I guess the point stands though that either that little bit extra control in the middle or more clinical finishing would've added two more points to the current tally. Lansbury's corker - as the old cliche goes - 'deserved to win any game' and had it done so the forward line wouldnt have fallen u der such scrutiny.
It's great credit to Davies and his band of merry touchline men that Forest sit 4th in the table while still not being the finished package. Should Chalobah add balance and control and one of Cox or Derbyshire, say, find goalscoring form then there's no reason why the good start can't be translated into a challenge for the promotion positions. Without that though it'll be difficult to hang onto to the coat tails of the likes of Leicester, pace setters Burnley and 'Arry's Rs (not one to say out loud).
TalkTalk....
My Internet is working. I'm saying no more for fear of jinxing it but the TalkTalk rants will cease for now...and hopefully forever!
Tuesday, 27 August 2013
TalkTalk: The saga continues
One day I'll get back to posting the occasional observations here on the fortunes of Nottingham Forest, maybe on that day I'll have fibre broadband too. Yep, that's right, the saga is STILL rumbling on.
Firstly, I was impressed that many people actually read the last ramble I put out on here. It was, in retrospect, a tad on the 'hefty' side but thankfully many people seemed to forgive the rather public airing of dirty web linen.
It seems TalkTalk themselves probably read it too. I can't say that for sure of course because I don't know but I did, funnily, begin to get a better level of customer service after my post and a few (well, ok, maybe a few too many) tweets in the direction of my dearly beloved 'service provider'.
Low and behold they did even begin to live up to that moniker and, well, you know, provide a service. Firstly I had nightly phone calls from a pleasant lady with updates on my issue, informing me that the technical department were looking at things and should have my landline phone fixed soon.
Then, on Friday August 9, I returned from a day out to see a magical fluttering light on my modem. Not only was my phone now active but basic broadband was active. Brilliant. Now at last I could gorge on Alan Partridge trailers, download my podcasts and watch THAT awesome trailer where someone did 'Malcolm Tucker as Doctor Who' (if you haven't seen it, enjoy http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/odd/s7/doctor-who/news/a503970/peter-capaldi-in-doctor-who-malcolm-tucker-mashup-trailer-watch.html?utm_source=tw&utm_medium=dsuk&utm_campaign=twdsuk).
I had another call that night. This to my landline (a call at last!). Firstly the lady asked if my landline was working. I resisted the urge to be cheeky although was sorely tempted to highlight that I'd have trouble speaking to her if it wasn't. I gingerly raised the subject of the Internet, asking if it would disappear in a day like last week, and was met with a polite - but confused - response. I seemingly, possibly, maybe, shouldn't have the basic Internet. Oh well, let's keep it quiet and, importantly, switched on shall we??
This left just - just! - the issue of the fibre broadband. This was the upgrade we'd decided to treat ourselves to in our new house. One for which TalkTalk would, of course, make a little bit more money out of us for and should (see last post) have been installed on July 31.
The next day I drove to Nottingham for some shopping and to see my sister. En route I missed a call from TalkTalk. They left a message asking me to ring back. Fair enough. I did. Only when I got through they seemed to have no idea why I'd called. I tried to explain that I'd called to return their message and asked what did THEY want but this was to no avail. Did I have an issue? Well, Erm yes, quite clearly! Did they want me to go through it all again?? Surely you know why you wanted me specifically?
Then they asked if I had wanted to speak to a manager. Well, yes, but at the beginning of the week when you promised a call within a day! Did I want to speak to one now? Well, it had to be better than playing 'guess the reason for the call' - so why not? Only then I got cut off. They rang back but after round two of 'guess the reason for the call' I got cut off again. I gave up. Tackling the madness of shopping at Ikea on a Saturday was bad enough without a frankly farcical phone call to add into the flat packed melting pot.
In the meantime with basic Internet, lots of DIY to do and a trip to the excellent and aforementioned Alpha Papa the situation drifted along until, on the Thursday, I received an email saying that TalkTalk had been unable to contact me (odd since I'd never had a missed call or answer phone message) and could I ring them urgently to discuss an engineer.
I did and, after the classic call options/hold music/security questions/call transfer to right department shtick I was told that they wanted to send an engineer to my house on August 27. Could it not be earlier? No. Was I not now a priority case after all this, well, faffing about? No. So, basically, I had to have that date whether I liked it or not?! They wouldn't word it like that of course but I would. (a spade is a spade if not an f'ing shovel - that's what they taught me in journalism training. That and don't waffle on like in this blog - whoops!).
Again the call ended with the obligatory 'was I happy?' question. Not really. It's going to make it a month since the date when I was guaranteed to get this service. Someone needs to rip up that TalkTalk customer service manual. I'll offer my services. But, only on a date I choose that's about a month away.
Why would it take so long, I asked? Because appointments tend to take about 20 days. But, hang on...so why the delay in booking an engineer after my July 31 date then? That would also mean the engineer wasn't booked until, well, until I posted the whole saga on this blog. Hmm. Still, I'd have confirmation in 72 hours and apparently everything would definitely be sorted on the 27th.
[At this point if you're flagging feel free to take a break and watch Miley Cyrus twerking at the VMAs or something. It's here if you want it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVAVJONEjbA&feature=youtube_gdata_player]
Before that date arrived I received my 1st bill. This was odd because I had requested paperless billing. I'd had a letter querying my email address a while ago (they appear to have written an ^ in front of it at 1st) but, when I rung, had been assured that they had the correct address. Plus I'd had emails relating to my complaint. Yet still here was my 1st bill with a £1.90 charge for a paper bill. I queried it and was told I'd have a credit applied to my next bill. A small episode maybe, but symbolic of the the ineptitude that was now, sadly, predictable.
By now I'd found that email, while maybe slow, was a way to get an answer to a basic question and saved an inevitable 20 minute call to an 0870 number. I sent another. This time asking if the 27th still stood since I'd had no confirmation. A reply duly informed me that it was and reiterated that the engineer would attend between 8am and 1pm.
Now, here we are. The 27th. I bet you can guess what's coming next...
No-one showed up. My girlfriend waited and waited (I was at work), ensuring all the kit was out ready and a space was cleared amid our semi decorated front room.
Come 4pm I called TalkTalk. Had something gone wrong? They said it was clear that the engineer was not going to attend. They said I had to ring back the next day and re-arrange for another one to come out.
But, hang on. Could they not contact Openreach and find out why the appointment they booked on our behalf had not been fulfilled? Apparently not. I explained that I found it odd that they would not at least check what had gone on. The lady told me there were many reasons why the engineer may not have attended and then set about listing some possible scenarios. Erm, but rather than guessing how about checking? Did they have the wrong address for example? Or should they not be responsible for putting right an unfulfilled date? This might, after all, not be TalkTalk's fault...
Once again I was banging my head against an impenetrable brick wall. The lady apologised about a dozen times and said she understood my concerns. I don't want to be harsh but these are just words. I've heard them dozens of times. She also credited my account with £5. Again, not being ungrateful but i'd probably just spend that in 20 minutes on the phone to an 0870 number so does little to address the inconvenience.
Would my next engineer take another 20 days? And, given that my girlfriend will be back teaching soon, will I have to take a day off now - something I'm definitely not keen to have to do if the engineer will then not attend.
I also refuse to believe that no-one at TalkTalk can contact anyone at Openreach to find out what went on today. If I didn't turn up to work at the paper I'd expect a call to see what was going on. Surely someone checks up on these things with broadband engineers too?
So, the saga rumbles on. At least I now have a service, just not the one I rang to arrange at the end of June. Surely someone at TalkTalk can see that is not good enough?
At least Forest have started well eh...?
Firstly, I was impressed that many people actually read the last ramble I put out on here. It was, in retrospect, a tad on the 'hefty' side but thankfully many people seemed to forgive the rather public airing of dirty web linen.
It seems TalkTalk themselves probably read it too. I can't say that for sure of course because I don't know but I did, funnily, begin to get a better level of customer service after my post and a few (well, ok, maybe a few too many) tweets in the direction of my dearly beloved 'service provider'.
Low and behold they did even begin to live up to that moniker and, well, you know, provide a service. Firstly I had nightly phone calls from a pleasant lady with updates on my issue, informing me that the technical department were looking at things and should have my landline phone fixed soon.
Then, on Friday August 9, I returned from a day out to see a magical fluttering light on my modem. Not only was my phone now active but basic broadband was active. Brilliant. Now at last I could gorge on Alan Partridge trailers, download my podcasts and watch THAT awesome trailer where someone did 'Malcolm Tucker as Doctor Who' (if you haven't seen it, enjoy http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/odd/s7/doctor-who/news/a503970/peter-capaldi-in-doctor-who-malcolm-tucker-mashup-trailer-watch.html?utm_source=tw&utm_medium=dsuk&utm_campaign=twdsuk).
I had another call that night. This to my landline (a call at last!). Firstly the lady asked if my landline was working. I resisted the urge to be cheeky although was sorely tempted to highlight that I'd have trouble speaking to her if it wasn't. I gingerly raised the subject of the Internet, asking if it would disappear in a day like last week, and was met with a polite - but confused - response. I seemingly, possibly, maybe, shouldn't have the basic Internet. Oh well, let's keep it quiet and, importantly, switched on shall we??
This left just - just! - the issue of the fibre broadband. This was the upgrade we'd decided to treat ourselves to in our new house. One for which TalkTalk would, of course, make a little bit more money out of us for and should (see last post) have been installed on July 31.
The next day I drove to Nottingham for some shopping and to see my sister. En route I missed a call from TalkTalk. They left a message asking me to ring back. Fair enough. I did. Only when I got through they seemed to have no idea why I'd called. I tried to explain that I'd called to return their message and asked what did THEY want but this was to no avail. Did I have an issue? Well, Erm yes, quite clearly! Did they want me to go through it all again?? Surely you know why you wanted me specifically?
Then they asked if I had wanted to speak to a manager. Well, yes, but at the beginning of the week when you promised a call within a day! Did I want to speak to one now? Well, it had to be better than playing 'guess the reason for the call' - so why not? Only then I got cut off. They rang back but after round two of 'guess the reason for the call' I got cut off again. I gave up. Tackling the madness of shopping at Ikea on a Saturday was bad enough without a frankly farcical phone call to add into the flat packed melting pot.
In the meantime with basic Internet, lots of DIY to do and a trip to the excellent and aforementioned Alpha Papa the situation drifted along until, on the Thursday, I received an email saying that TalkTalk had been unable to contact me (odd since I'd never had a missed call or answer phone message) and could I ring them urgently to discuss an engineer.
I did and, after the classic call options/hold music/security questions/call transfer to right department shtick I was told that they wanted to send an engineer to my house on August 27. Could it not be earlier? No. Was I not now a priority case after all this, well, faffing about? No. So, basically, I had to have that date whether I liked it or not?! They wouldn't word it like that of course but I would. (a spade is a spade if not an f'ing shovel - that's what they taught me in journalism training. That and don't waffle on like in this blog - whoops!).
Again the call ended with the obligatory 'was I happy?' question. Not really. It's going to make it a month since the date when I was guaranteed to get this service. Someone needs to rip up that TalkTalk customer service manual. I'll offer my services. But, only on a date I choose that's about a month away.
Why would it take so long, I asked? Because appointments tend to take about 20 days. But, hang on...so why the delay in booking an engineer after my July 31 date then? That would also mean the engineer wasn't booked until, well, until I posted the whole saga on this blog. Hmm. Still, I'd have confirmation in 72 hours and apparently everything would definitely be sorted on the 27th.
[At this point if you're flagging feel free to take a break and watch Miley Cyrus twerking at the VMAs or something. It's here if you want it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVAVJONEjbA&feature=youtube_gdata_player]
Before that date arrived I received my 1st bill. This was odd because I had requested paperless billing. I'd had a letter querying my email address a while ago (they appear to have written an ^ in front of it at 1st) but, when I rung, had been assured that they had the correct address. Plus I'd had emails relating to my complaint. Yet still here was my 1st bill with a £1.90 charge for a paper bill. I queried it and was told I'd have a credit applied to my next bill. A small episode maybe, but symbolic of the the ineptitude that was now, sadly, predictable.
By now I'd found that email, while maybe slow, was a way to get an answer to a basic question and saved an inevitable 20 minute call to an 0870 number. I sent another. This time asking if the 27th still stood since I'd had no confirmation. A reply duly informed me that it was and reiterated that the engineer would attend between 8am and 1pm.
Now, here we are. The 27th. I bet you can guess what's coming next...
No-one showed up. My girlfriend waited and waited (I was at work), ensuring all the kit was out ready and a space was cleared amid our semi decorated front room.
Come 4pm I called TalkTalk. Had something gone wrong? They said it was clear that the engineer was not going to attend. They said I had to ring back the next day and re-arrange for another one to come out.
But, hang on. Could they not contact Openreach and find out why the appointment they booked on our behalf had not been fulfilled? Apparently not. I explained that I found it odd that they would not at least check what had gone on. The lady told me there were many reasons why the engineer may not have attended and then set about listing some possible scenarios. Erm, but rather than guessing how about checking? Did they have the wrong address for example? Or should they not be responsible for putting right an unfulfilled date? This might, after all, not be TalkTalk's fault...
Once again I was banging my head against an impenetrable brick wall. The lady apologised about a dozen times and said she understood my concerns. I don't want to be harsh but these are just words. I've heard them dozens of times. She also credited my account with £5. Again, not being ungrateful but i'd probably just spend that in 20 minutes on the phone to an 0870 number so does little to address the inconvenience.
Would my next engineer take another 20 days? And, given that my girlfriend will be back teaching soon, will I have to take a day off now - something I'm definitely not keen to have to do if the engineer will then not attend.
I also refuse to believe that no-one at TalkTalk can contact anyone at Openreach to find out what went on today. If I didn't turn up to work at the paper I'd expect a call to see what was going on. Surely someone checks up on these things with broadband engineers too?
So, the saga rumbles on. At least I now have a service, just not the one I rang to arrange at the end of June. Surely someone at TalkTalk can see that is not good enough?
At least Forest have started well eh...?
Tuesday, 6 August 2013
The endless frustrations of a would-be TalkTalk customer
I want a service with TalkTalk. That can't be too hard can it? I mean, none of these telecoms companies have got great reputations but if you ring up and offer them money they're at least good at first right? Hmm, maybe not.
I've recently moved house from one part of south Lincolnshire to another and was previously a TalkTalk customer at my old house. I asked to transfer my old service (basic phone and broadband) to this house and was told that it would take a couple of weeks. I'm not sure exactly why it takes them so long but, still, I settled on knowing that my old service would end on July 1 and begin at the new place on July 13.
Or so I thought.
Before that date arrived I had a call to say that there had been a problem with my order - TalkTalk's fault so they say - so it would have to be cancelled and re-placed. Not ideal since I'd already been waiting but still these things happen.
I got transferred to a helpful - and hopeful - sounding chap in the sales department. When I explained that it I was disappointed since it was my intention to upgrade to fibre broadband once my line was active he went away, spoke to someone else, and came back and said that not only could he get my service active on July 19 he would also put the fibre order through there and then to save me any further inconvenience. He booked the engineer for July 31 and promised me 6 months free of the 'basic phone and broadband' part of my bill.
All sounds fair enough I thought still, at this point, naively believing that they would be keen to sort it out and take my money.
One thing though - what if the problem that caused my initial order to cancel resurfaced?
It's ok he said - they should be able to fix it for the 19th but, as an absolute last resort, the engineer on the 31st would definitely get us a service, with a new line installed if necessary. That sounded a little worrying - the 31st was a decent way away after all - but it was a confident promise. On those terms I agreed and signed up.
Then things went strangely quiet. No emails or letters as per normal when you take an order with one of these companies. Keen to check there wasn't another problem I rang up on July 17. I got through to a very friendly lady who checked my account and confirmed that everything was fine and I was still due to go live. Phew.
On the 19th I dutifully plugged in my phone and modem, finally ready to resume my basic service. But nothing. I began to get concerned and rang TalkTalk.
The 1st person I spoke to said that the 19th had been cancelled and my order was due to go through on the 31st. She said that because I'd ordered fibre the two had to go through together.
So hang on, that sales patter about saving me time and putting both orders through together? Was that just a fib to get me to sign up? Who knows. This woman had one stock answer to my questions and wasn't prepared to budge from robot mode into a human conversation.
I asked to speak to someone else and, when put through, was told that my 'go live' date was indeed cancelled almost as soon as it had gone through. So why no call, email or letter? He said that the company had issues with how they handled the process from placing an order to delivering it and apologised.
He said my July 31 date was also cancelled because of a fault with my line but that my basic service would go live on July 24. So another wait. But how did I know this would actually happen? Don't worry, he said. He'd checked and the order for that had "perfectly gone through already, there are no issues with it".
I know those were his exact words because I took them down in trusty shorthand (100wpm certificate available to view on request) because by now I was fed up with getting conflicting views every time I called. Oh and that's every time I called on my mobile phone at my expense of course.
Then followed a fibre modem and letter. Progress at last. I mean they wouldn't send out kit and then not get a service live for you to use it with right?! The letter said July 31 but this was talking about fibre so I crossed everything and hoped the definitive promise would come true.
So onwards and upwards to the 24th. But once again not a sausage of a dialling tone when I plugged in. Not even a pesky chipolata. This is of course the date that has 'perfectly gone through'.
I rang the next day (having left it til then in case by some miracle it whirred into action overnight). What had happened to July 24? They told me, once again, that it all had to happen together on the 31st. So that was 2-2 in the game between the 'it goes live in stages' and the 'it has to happen at once' camps. It's a match that sounds like more fun than I was having.
So, given that the last chap said July 24 had 'perfectly gone through' but that July 31 had been cancelled what chance had I got of getting a service on that date? A date, if you remember (apologies if I've bored you but this is vaguely cathartic!), that would be when I'd get a service as a 'last resort' even if it meant a new line. By now I'd take a fibre line plugged directly into my head if it meant an end to this sorry saga... So, to ease my increasing frustrations, the woman's exact words (again taken down in shorthand so permissible in court): "I can guarantee it will be activated on the 31st". A guarantee? Well, I had to take that.
On the 31st came a brief ray of sunshine. A call from an engineer to tell me he'd send a colleague that afternoon. At last. Might today be the day?!
No. Of course it wasn't. I should've learned by now.
The engineer did indeed attend but couldn't even get a dialling tone on my line. Someone else would have to come to fix the fault.
So I called TalkTalk. When could the fault be fixed? How much longer may I have to wait? Would I be charged for a service I haven't had since July 1?
They said I'd have to wait up to 48 hours before they received the engineers report but that I wouldn't be charged or that I'd be reimbursed. They'd ring me to tell me when they knew.
Then, two days later, with no phone call for warning, an engineer arrived. He duly fixed the fault and, hey presto, we had basic phone and internet. Hallelujah! He couldn't fix the fibre - that wasn't his bag - so I called TalkTalk to ask. They said I'd have to wait 48 hours (this was 48 hours) and call back.
But, I could cope with that for now. I had a basic service. I could update my phone, get on Internet banking, sort out my bills and of course - tweet, watch YouTube and browse to my heart's content without another 'you have used your allowance' text message. Euphoria!
Except by the time I returned from a trip to Nottingham (Forest won, my luck must have turned!) the Internet and phone was down. Surely not? Not after just one day? If we slept on it it might've been one of those overnight caused by storm things right? Sadly we clutched at that straw but awoke to no phone and Internet again.
I called TalkTalk. They said I'd have to wait for 48 hours for an engineer's report. Erm, what? From when? The booked engineer date of July 31? Friday's out of the blue visit? From today?
She didn't know and I was losing the will to carry on banging my already bruised head into this relentless brick wall of false promises and endless string of fruitless phone calls. In the end she told me they would have an answer on Monday or early on Tuesday. Did she just make that up to get rid of me? It felt that way but I was getting nowhere so went along with it.
So, Tuesday morning (today!). What's the latest please TalkTalk? Note that I again ring them. I've never once had an unprompted call to keep me informed of the progress of my 'order' - if we can still call it that.
You'll have to wait 48 hours they say. Why? What for? Have they had an engineer's report? If not, have they not chased this up for me? When am I going to get a service? The lady said I'd have to wait 48 hours for an update. Sorry, not good enough, I thought. I'd waited as patiently as possible but there are limits surely?
I asked to speak to a manager. The lady said she would try to transfer me. She couldn't. The manager was busy but she'd get them to ring me back. It'd be today. At least that'd save me hanging on. Was there anything else she could help me with? Erm, I've got no service, you can't tell me why I haven't or when I will get a service...other than that I'm fine. I guess it's in the coaching manual but seriously was that the right time to ask that question?!
I began to think on and decided not to wait. I wanted to speak to someone in the complaints department. Surely there's someone out there who can give me a proper explanation and, when listening to my tale above, can realise they've been pretty woeful so far and ought to pull out a few stops to keep me on board as a customer?
This time they rang me back. But, after placing me on hold - I hate that music! - they said they noted that a manager was due to call me. They apologised - they always do - and said the manager would answer my questions. I explained that if they couldn't at least give a basic answer I'd have to consider cancelling and they said they'd make a further note that I was waiting for a call and promised that answers would be forthcoming.
That was at about 1030-1045. By 6.30pm I'd not had a call from the manager. I rang myself, was put on hold and cut off as I was being transferred. I waited a minute for a call back - thinking they would try to get me back - but tried again. I was cut off again.
At that point I felt the need to blog. Well, after a donut (you drove me to that TalkTalk!).
So I'm still waiting. I'm thoroughly fed up of ringing TalkTalk and getting different non-answers from robot people. Don't get me wrong, they're always pleasant but the trouble is they're inept. I'd gladly swap the niceties for a blast of Malcolm Tucker at his sweary worst if it was at least an efficient Tucker who knew how to fix a fibre broadband line up.
I'm sure other people have similar experiences. And I know it's not just TalkTalk. Too many companies have pathetic customer service. They spend all their money on flash adverts and TV rights while ignoring the need for a working service (yes that's a dig at you BT).
The trouble is the net has become so important. Of course I want to watch Alan Partridge trailers, tweet 'banter' and comment on friends' Facebook photos but these days you need it for checking bank statements, paying bills, shopping for the best deals and doing extra work at home at weekends when you're busy. Maybe in the future the Internet will have to be like the gas and electric which will keep running at a house when you go?
Whatever happens though, if you are reading this TalkTalk I'm STILL waiting for my call...
I've recently moved house from one part of south Lincolnshire to another and was previously a TalkTalk customer at my old house. I asked to transfer my old service (basic phone and broadband) to this house and was told that it would take a couple of weeks. I'm not sure exactly why it takes them so long but, still, I settled on knowing that my old service would end on July 1 and begin at the new place on July 13.
Or so I thought.
Before that date arrived I had a call to say that there had been a problem with my order - TalkTalk's fault so they say - so it would have to be cancelled and re-placed. Not ideal since I'd already been waiting but still these things happen.
I got transferred to a helpful - and hopeful - sounding chap in the sales department. When I explained that it I was disappointed since it was my intention to upgrade to fibre broadband once my line was active he went away, spoke to someone else, and came back and said that not only could he get my service active on July 19 he would also put the fibre order through there and then to save me any further inconvenience. He booked the engineer for July 31 and promised me 6 months free of the 'basic phone and broadband' part of my bill.
All sounds fair enough I thought still, at this point, naively believing that they would be keen to sort it out and take my money.
One thing though - what if the problem that caused my initial order to cancel resurfaced?
It's ok he said - they should be able to fix it for the 19th but, as an absolute last resort, the engineer on the 31st would definitely get us a service, with a new line installed if necessary. That sounded a little worrying - the 31st was a decent way away after all - but it was a confident promise. On those terms I agreed and signed up.
Then things went strangely quiet. No emails or letters as per normal when you take an order with one of these companies. Keen to check there wasn't another problem I rang up on July 17. I got through to a very friendly lady who checked my account and confirmed that everything was fine and I was still due to go live. Phew.
On the 19th I dutifully plugged in my phone and modem, finally ready to resume my basic service. But nothing. I began to get concerned and rang TalkTalk.
The 1st person I spoke to said that the 19th had been cancelled and my order was due to go through on the 31st. She said that because I'd ordered fibre the two had to go through together.
So hang on, that sales patter about saving me time and putting both orders through together? Was that just a fib to get me to sign up? Who knows. This woman had one stock answer to my questions and wasn't prepared to budge from robot mode into a human conversation.
I asked to speak to someone else and, when put through, was told that my 'go live' date was indeed cancelled almost as soon as it had gone through. So why no call, email or letter? He said that the company had issues with how they handled the process from placing an order to delivering it and apologised.
He said my July 31 date was also cancelled because of a fault with my line but that my basic service would go live on July 24. So another wait. But how did I know this would actually happen? Don't worry, he said. He'd checked and the order for that had "perfectly gone through already, there are no issues with it".
I know those were his exact words because I took them down in trusty shorthand (100wpm certificate available to view on request) because by now I was fed up with getting conflicting views every time I called. Oh and that's every time I called on my mobile phone at my expense of course.
Then followed a fibre modem and letter. Progress at last. I mean they wouldn't send out kit and then not get a service live for you to use it with right?! The letter said July 31 but this was talking about fibre so I crossed everything and hoped the definitive promise would come true.
So onwards and upwards to the 24th. But once again not a sausage of a dialling tone when I plugged in. Not even a pesky chipolata. This is of course the date that has 'perfectly gone through'.
I rang the next day (having left it til then in case by some miracle it whirred into action overnight). What had happened to July 24? They told me, once again, that it all had to happen together on the 31st. So that was 2-2 in the game between the 'it goes live in stages' and the 'it has to happen at once' camps. It's a match that sounds like more fun than I was having.
So, given that the last chap said July 24 had 'perfectly gone through' but that July 31 had been cancelled what chance had I got of getting a service on that date? A date, if you remember (apologies if I've bored you but this is vaguely cathartic!), that would be when I'd get a service as a 'last resort' even if it meant a new line. By now I'd take a fibre line plugged directly into my head if it meant an end to this sorry saga... So, to ease my increasing frustrations, the woman's exact words (again taken down in shorthand so permissible in court): "I can guarantee it will be activated on the 31st". A guarantee? Well, I had to take that.
On the 31st came a brief ray of sunshine. A call from an engineer to tell me he'd send a colleague that afternoon. At last. Might today be the day?!
No. Of course it wasn't. I should've learned by now.
The engineer did indeed attend but couldn't even get a dialling tone on my line. Someone else would have to come to fix the fault.
So I called TalkTalk. When could the fault be fixed? How much longer may I have to wait? Would I be charged for a service I haven't had since July 1?
They said I'd have to wait up to 48 hours before they received the engineers report but that I wouldn't be charged or that I'd be reimbursed. They'd ring me to tell me when they knew.
Then, two days later, with no phone call for warning, an engineer arrived. He duly fixed the fault and, hey presto, we had basic phone and internet. Hallelujah! He couldn't fix the fibre - that wasn't his bag - so I called TalkTalk to ask. They said I'd have to wait 48 hours (this was 48 hours) and call back.
But, I could cope with that for now. I had a basic service. I could update my phone, get on Internet banking, sort out my bills and of course - tweet, watch YouTube and browse to my heart's content without another 'you have used your allowance' text message. Euphoria!
Except by the time I returned from a trip to Nottingham (Forest won, my luck must have turned!) the Internet and phone was down. Surely not? Not after just one day? If we slept on it it might've been one of those overnight caused by storm things right? Sadly we clutched at that straw but awoke to no phone and Internet again.
I called TalkTalk. They said I'd have to wait for 48 hours for an engineer's report. Erm, what? From when? The booked engineer date of July 31? Friday's out of the blue visit? From today?
She didn't know and I was losing the will to carry on banging my already bruised head into this relentless brick wall of false promises and endless string of fruitless phone calls. In the end she told me they would have an answer on Monday or early on Tuesday. Did she just make that up to get rid of me? It felt that way but I was getting nowhere so went along with it.
So, Tuesday morning (today!). What's the latest please TalkTalk? Note that I again ring them. I've never once had an unprompted call to keep me informed of the progress of my 'order' - if we can still call it that.
You'll have to wait 48 hours they say. Why? What for? Have they had an engineer's report? If not, have they not chased this up for me? When am I going to get a service? The lady said I'd have to wait 48 hours for an update. Sorry, not good enough, I thought. I'd waited as patiently as possible but there are limits surely?
I asked to speak to a manager. The lady said she would try to transfer me. She couldn't. The manager was busy but she'd get them to ring me back. It'd be today. At least that'd save me hanging on. Was there anything else she could help me with? Erm, I've got no service, you can't tell me why I haven't or when I will get a service...other than that I'm fine. I guess it's in the coaching manual but seriously was that the right time to ask that question?!
I began to think on and decided not to wait. I wanted to speak to someone in the complaints department. Surely there's someone out there who can give me a proper explanation and, when listening to my tale above, can realise they've been pretty woeful so far and ought to pull out a few stops to keep me on board as a customer?
This time they rang me back. But, after placing me on hold - I hate that music! - they said they noted that a manager was due to call me. They apologised - they always do - and said the manager would answer my questions. I explained that if they couldn't at least give a basic answer I'd have to consider cancelling and they said they'd make a further note that I was waiting for a call and promised that answers would be forthcoming.
That was at about 1030-1045. By 6.30pm I'd not had a call from the manager. I rang myself, was put on hold and cut off as I was being transferred. I waited a minute for a call back - thinking they would try to get me back - but tried again. I was cut off again.
At that point I felt the need to blog. Well, after a donut (you drove me to that TalkTalk!).
So I'm still waiting. I'm thoroughly fed up of ringing TalkTalk and getting different non-answers from robot people. Don't get me wrong, they're always pleasant but the trouble is they're inept. I'd gladly swap the niceties for a blast of Malcolm Tucker at his sweary worst if it was at least an efficient Tucker who knew how to fix a fibre broadband line up.
I'm sure other people have similar experiences. And I know it's not just TalkTalk. Too many companies have pathetic customer service. They spend all their money on flash adverts and TV rights while ignoring the need for a working service (yes that's a dig at you BT).
The trouble is the net has become so important. Of course I want to watch Alan Partridge trailers, tweet 'banter' and comment on friends' Facebook photos but these days you need it for checking bank statements, paying bills, shopping for the best deals and doing extra work at home at weekends when you're busy. Maybe in the future the Internet will have to be like the gas and electric which will keep running at a house when you go?
Whatever happens though, if you are reading this TalkTalk I'm STILL waiting for my call...
Tuesday, 5 February 2013
The not-so-merry-go-round
As an occasional blogger on the events at the City Ground, it's always hard enough to keep up with everything that's happening but you know things are particularly bad when we've had more managers than blog posts in recent times.
I have to say I greeted news of Alex McLeish's departure with a weary shrug and the fact that us fans are not that surprised to lose a manager after 41 days and just 7 games speaks volumes.
Big 'Eck's shotgun stay on Trentside bypassed the usual honeymoon period - heading straight for a short, sharp divorce. I suppose it was less of a marriage, more an uncivil partnership (which is rather apt this week I guess!).
The Scot seemed destined for the exit door as soon as the dust settled on a laughably botched transfer window. The cherry on the cake must have come when top target Chris Burke consigned McLeish's charges to a defeat at his old stomping ground on Saturday with a brace.
It was a result that rubbed McLeish's nose into it so much that it's a surprise he didn't have a Steve Bruce-esque mangled conk come the final whistle.
Let's be honest, performances under McLeish have been as disjointed as said snout and I can't say that after a record of seven games with just one win, four losses and 15 goals conceded I'll mourn him too much.
The issue really is that, coming after a slightly farcical deadline day and ruthless sacking of Sean O'Driscoll, it leaves us looking like a bit of a joke.
Which serious manager actually wants the job now?
At the end of the Watford game one old wag in the crowd near me shouted 'Adkins in'. He was joking then but he's probably hoping for that to come true now.
The former Saints boss is definitely an impressive character - and would certainly bring positivity to the club at a time when it's not exactly in abundance.
But does he want to walk into a club in the state Forest is in? He's surely too sensible to sip from this poisoned chalice at this time?
Who else is there?
I see Billy Davies' name mentioned by a string of tweeters and bookies.
The feisty wee Glaswegian is still known affectionately as 'King Billy' in some circles and I suppose this is the week for unlikely monarchical comebacks, what with Richard III turning up under a Leicester car park.
Still, Billy back? Surely that's a plot even too far fetched for the soap opera that is Nottingham Forest? Mind you, like Leicester's car park Plantagenet, you get the impression Shakespeare might have had some fun with Billy!
If it happens though you fear it would be a move from the owners to try to win fans back over than for footballing reasons.
Di Canio? There's a storm we could probably do without. Roy Keane? Likewise. Owen Coyle? Maybe - although Bolton's slide under him was worrying. Sean O'Drisc... Oh hang on - we've not so much burned that bridge as dropped a nuclear bomb on it...
Here's a thought. Why not hand the reins to John Pemberton with Rob Kelly until the summer? Then we can take the time to appoint a chief executive or similar figure who can help the Al Hasawis get to grips with running a club in the English game.
That person can help weigh up the options and then together they can pick a manager in the summer who can be given time (definition = much much longer than 41 days) plus the scouting infrastructure needed to build on the start made by O'Driscoll - who had started to mould the basis for a decent squad.
Sackings and general upheaval have long-since cost us a shot at a promotion that, in itself, would have been too much, too soon anyway, especially a year after we only narrowly escaped the drop.
The goal now should be some much needed calm. Can we at least manage that for a bit?
I have to say I greeted news of Alex McLeish's departure with a weary shrug and the fact that us fans are not that surprised to lose a manager after 41 days and just 7 games speaks volumes.
Big 'Eck's shotgun stay on Trentside bypassed the usual honeymoon period - heading straight for a short, sharp divorce. I suppose it was less of a marriage, more an uncivil partnership (which is rather apt this week I guess!).
The Scot seemed destined for the exit door as soon as the dust settled on a laughably botched transfer window. The cherry on the cake must have come when top target Chris Burke consigned McLeish's charges to a defeat at his old stomping ground on Saturday with a brace.
It was a result that rubbed McLeish's nose into it so much that it's a surprise he didn't have a Steve Bruce-esque mangled conk come the final whistle.
Let's be honest, performances under McLeish have been as disjointed as said snout and I can't say that after a record of seven games with just one win, four losses and 15 goals conceded I'll mourn him too much.
The issue really is that, coming after a slightly farcical deadline day and ruthless sacking of Sean O'Driscoll, it leaves us looking like a bit of a joke.
Which serious manager actually wants the job now?
At the end of the Watford game one old wag in the crowd near me shouted 'Adkins in'. He was joking then but he's probably hoping for that to come true now.
The former Saints boss is definitely an impressive character - and would certainly bring positivity to the club at a time when it's not exactly in abundance.
But does he want to walk into a club in the state Forest is in? He's surely too sensible to sip from this poisoned chalice at this time?
Who else is there?
I see Billy Davies' name mentioned by a string of tweeters and bookies.
The feisty wee Glaswegian is still known affectionately as 'King Billy' in some circles and I suppose this is the week for unlikely monarchical comebacks, what with Richard III turning up under a Leicester car park.
Still, Billy back? Surely that's a plot even too far fetched for the soap opera that is Nottingham Forest? Mind you, like Leicester's car park Plantagenet, you get the impression Shakespeare might have had some fun with Billy!
If it happens though you fear it would be a move from the owners to try to win fans back over than for footballing reasons.
Di Canio? There's a storm we could probably do without. Roy Keane? Likewise. Owen Coyle? Maybe - although Bolton's slide under him was worrying. Sean O'Drisc... Oh hang on - we've not so much burned that bridge as dropped a nuclear bomb on it...
Here's a thought. Why not hand the reins to John Pemberton with Rob Kelly until the summer? Then we can take the time to appoint a chief executive or similar figure who can help the Al Hasawis get to grips with running a club in the English game.
That person can help weigh up the options and then together they can pick a manager in the summer who can be given time (definition = much much longer than 41 days) plus the scouting infrastructure needed to build on the start made by O'Driscoll - who had started to mould the basis for a decent squad.
Sackings and general upheaval have long-since cost us a shot at a promotion that, in itself, would have been too much, too soon anyway, especially a year after we only narrowly escaped the drop.
The goal now should be some much needed calm. Can we at least manage that for a bit?
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